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7 months ago

Press B 11: Linx II Past

The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past. A game that has changed the world of gaming for many fans over the decades. Let's hear how it influenced the game world for the Press B crew!

Episode Transcription:
The below is a machine based transcription of this episode. Sorta like Skynet if it was 2 years old, and wanted a cookie. Take it with a grain of salt.

Jake 0:00
Episode 11 links to past today on path.

Jake 0:25
Welcome. Thank you for listening to presby to cancel I'm your host this week sick Jake. Today we're going to talk about my favorite Zelda game well, well maybe second favorite Zelda game. Anyway, I'm not here by myself. I'm joined by my fellow friends and co hosts starting with Polish polish. How are you today?

Palsh 0:42
Dude, this is a start to sound like your last time you had this, like I was word for word or using the same intro.

Jake 0:48
I like mad hockey. Honestly, to be honest with you, I kind of slacked off on the research. I just didn't last 30 minutes. So cross my fingers

Palsh 0:59
do you want to keep In the episode I kind of do sure

Jake 1:03
whatever there is research, research,

Palsh 1:05
research. Okay. Hi, I'm Paul swana nine.

Wulff 1:08
Great to see who needs research when you know what you do

Jake 1:12
not know we're doing I'm also joined by werewolf How you doing? What? Wait that was unintentional burn shit.

Wulff 1:20
What? What?

Wulff 1:23
Howdy, I'm werewolf.

Jake 1:25
Sorry, we're

Jake 1:27
What are we doing and to bring us back to sanity for the therapy coach GP How you doing?

GP 1:33
I'm doing fine. Thank you.

Jake 1:34
It's good to be here. That was more normal than I was expecting. That's great. Okay.

Palsh 1:39
Yeah, kind of disappointed.

GP 1:44
I had some really good dick and fart jokes, but I decided to try to bring us back to sanity.

Jake 1:49
Mission accomplished. All right. We're going to talk about Legend of Zelda Link to the Past. But before we kind of dive into it, I do want to kind of hear for everybody what you're expecting. ends with a Zelda as a franchise just briefly because we could talk for hours about this. Just your favorite movie favorite game for the series and what you like about the series or if you you're like me and you disagree with everything everybody says you hate it, that's cool too. Well, if you want to start

Wulff 2:14
Yeah, I Gosh, I would have to say that I used to split my favorites up between 2d and 3d entries. Whereas, you know, my favorite 2d game was linked to the past. And my favorite 3d game was windwaker for a very long time up until I played Breath of the Wild and then that one kind of supplanted it and I think it's safe to say now that overall experience like for a proper Zelda experience I think Breath of the Wild is my favorite but Link to the Past is still much more playable

Jake 2:54
Yeah, I think Breath of the Wild was great for the innovation right, taking the series A drastically new direction and I really I love it too. I'm almost thinking now that for me in the future, assuming they keep making games like breath wild, I have to split up into three, like classic 2d Zelda is your old school 3d Zelda, and then whatever the hell they're doing with Breath of the Wild now going forward, because I find that game so drastically different from the rest of the series.

Wulff 3:18
Everybody says that, but to me, it just seems like it took the 3d gameplay and shoved the format into it, you know, the original Zelda just have at the world. Good luck.

Jake 3:31
Actually, that's true. It does have that quote that elements and there's just not for me, it's the lack of items, I think is what kind of made it different for me. And just the gameplay being so rely on the physics. It's a great game. I love that one.

Wulff 3:42
Yeah, it was a very different entry. It was a lot more limited. There wasn't 40 different items to obtain in the game. It was simpler, in a lot of ways, but also a lot more complex

Jake 3:56
overall. Yeah, definitely solid title. Alright, GP How about yourself? What's your exposure to zelda?

GP 4:04
I personally I love Zelda to The Adventure of Link, not pluralized it's The Adventure of Link. And

Unknown Speaker 4:12
was he not allowed more than one?

GP 4:14
No, it was just a single solitary adventure.

Palsh 4:17
One is all you need, sometimes.

Wulff 4:20
So you think most people refer to that as Adventures of blank.

GP 4:23
But now I grew up playing, trying to figure out the first Zelda couldn't do it. And then the internet happened before everybody had a computer in their home. I live next door to the library. And so I would walk over to the library, spend an hour downloading maps for Zelda two, and fell in love with that game at that point in my life. So that one's got a very special place in my heart. I appreciate the newer ones Breath of the Wild is gorgeous. But it is one of those rare games where I prefer to watch other people play it, as opposed to playing it myself, but I love it. Also, aka Rena

Jake 4:58
Ashley. That's interesting. Make up your mind just so many zealots. I love how you mentioned Zelda two is your favorite though because that's also kind of a How do you say outlier from the series? Right? And we talked before about sequels being so different from the originals, but that side scrolling link game is just quite a bit different than the rest of franchise. That's pretty interesting.

GP 5:20
Yeah, I love it. But and one of my favorite things that real quick about the franchise as a whole is the music and how really the music is one of the most cohesive things to tie together all of the entries. I'm sure we'll get to that later on. But you asked about what our experiences and that's that's my two cents.

Unknown Speaker 5:39
Paul shovel you What's your what's your fascination with zelda?

Palsh 5:42
My favorite I'm not a big like Zelda fan. You monster. Like I'm a freak. I'm a freak. Yeah. And just to prove it. My favorite game is actually in the series in the whole franchise is actually truly

Jake 6:00
Yes the

Palsh 6:03
Zelda to The Adventure of Link

GP 6:06
we are now almost the majority Good job Paul thank you

Palsh 6:09
yeah and I and I'm not doing it just to make this cheeky against Jake but no that's it's literally literally my favorite Zelda game like the rest of them don't compare it to me I know and I understand why people often like rant and say they don't like it but I've never actually heard someone flat out say they don't like it except for a couple of friends that I make fun of for their choices anyway so doesn't matter everybody that whenever I was like playing it or something on stream or you know talking and another stream basically because this you know how I connected with people over games like this. It was always do this my favorite Zelda I'm like, holy crap, me too. So it's it's weird how it's the least favorite but at the same time, everybody I know it seems to be one of their favorites

GP 6:55
is this it's kind of it's that song that comes on the radio, where nobody wants to be like oh, The song so you all just sit there and listen to it and silently jam out. Nobody will change the radio station. Because you would think for a wild, widely, not like game. Everybody shows up when you stream it. Yeah,

Palsh 7:13
yeah, that's true.

Wulff 7:15
See, I don't know. I think it was a really solid game. People give it a lot of crap as a Zelda title based on the other side of Zelda titles. Yeah, it's a little weird. But as a game, it's really solid. And I think the only issues I have with it personally, are probably due to translation problems. There mirror. Well, no, not not even as simple as that. Like, there's a point where you have to like duck and stab at a table to get into a basement and one of the houses. That's how it's done in real life. Nobody in the game tells you that. And I'm sure in the Japanese version, there was probably dialogue somewhere that gave you the clue.

Palsh 7:53
Yeah, the closest you get is like, look under the table or someone says something but table that has no indication on you know which table which were the you know, duck and duck and smack it.

Wulff 8:06
Yeah, so it's it's really vague and cryptic about the few issues I have about it because it doesn't teach you these things. It barely even tells you about those things. And that's a problem but otherwise it's a really really good game. And I think that's just a translation issue, not a gameplay issue.

Jake 8:23
Well, I mean, if you look at if I were to be locked in a room,

GP 8:26
what do you think?

Jake 8:28
Thanks to up as you guys were gushing about this, you know, Zelda to being so fantastic. I was gonna just say that I know it gets a lot of hate wolves right. And you know, if I was locked in a room with Mega Man one and Castlevania another hot garbage along with Zelda two I'd probably play Zelda two as well.

Palsh 8:45
Take it back.

Jake 8:47
I'm only joking it's not a bad game. I actually I actually do like it a lot. For me personally with Zelda I've been a fan for every every game. The only games I haven't played are the crap ones on CBI like a lot of people But I mean, I played the original original NES Zelda on a black and white TV. Like we used to visit my cousin. That was a TV in his room. We used to play Zelda for hours. I love the hell of that game. And it wasn't till I was a teenager when I got a stats I got late. And my dad when he says my dad, he said Zelda and just, he'd want to go play catch outside. He want to go to the movies. me. No, no, I'm not talking you dead. You're not cool. I'm just here to play Zelda. I don't love you. I just love Zelda. I love things of the past. It's, I mean, we're talking about this and we're talking about Zelda and like the past for this episode, but it's funny as we're recording this Link's Awakening remake came out, I think last week or so. And it's playing that, again is reminding me that links awaken is probably my favorite this series, which is funny, but it's, it's mostly because it's a spin off of linked to the past. Like it's very much in that same vein just expanded and better. Right. And but it's the same idea, just something about linked to the past the story The items and helicarrier links awakening both fantastic. I love Breath of the Wild too. But as I said earlier, I almost, I almost think of it as a separate game. It's definitely Zelda. But I don't think it's like the 3d was like our Marina and Majoris mask personally.

Wulff 10:15
Well links awakening was very much a passion project, at least for a while it was developed after hours by people who were just screwing around with the Gameboy tech to see what they could make. And I I don't quote me on this because I don't remember who it was. But I want to say it was agio enuma, who actually started it all by himself just messing with it. Either that or he was like one of the first two people I'm pretty sure that jumped in on it. And then that guy was joined by someone else like what are you doing? I'm messing with this trying to make a Zelda game I'm trying to recreate Link to the Past on Gameboy. And they were into it. So they started doing this and it just eventually flow just Didn't do its own thing that pulled in elements from Zelda two and straight away from Link to the Past a little bit because one of the driving ideas behind the development was the ability to have two different like to change both buttons, you didn't always have to have a sword equipped. That was really the driving idea behind it initially. And it just blew up. But eventually it was like a dozen people working on it after hours before they finally took it upstairs and said we want to make this an actual thing. And then they got the Go ahead.

Jake 11:35
And see that's actually really cool. Because when I was looking into Link to the Past development, there's actually some parallels there. So I mean, I guess we'll just get right into it then. So then it's super nintendo. I mean, it was unveiled internally, Nintendo in 1989. Right. I mean, obviously the Nintendo was a massive success. Stats had to be better. And there's two game franchises they knew they had to launch very quickly with the system or close to it. And that was very world and then linked to the past. So they actually had development start on both games at the same time or approximately the same time. But from what I've been reading with an interview that mimoto did number years ago, he kind of explained that Nintendo doesn't like to throw whole teams at a game development early, rather just a few people to start with. And then they do what you just described for links awakening, they kind of just tinkering around play with it threw around some ideas. In this case, they're also evaluating the hardware, how far could they push the hardware and see what they could do with it. And after they kind of nail down some concepts of what they thought would be good for a new Zelda game, that's when they started adding in more staff, eventually flushing out staff and then releasing the final game. So that experimentation is kind of like a Nintendo's mo I think for back then.

Unknown Speaker 12:46
Raw speechless. That's all good. Okay.

Jake 12:51
I'm checking my notes. Hold on one sec, nerd. Okay. Yes, I'm totally a nerd. Okay. So, development link. The past was two names that are being very familiar to people who listened to us before and one of my favorite, it's headed by Shigeru Miyamoto producing and then test tech Ashi Tezuka. I will never say his name right now I'll try I feel bad. I feel like

GP 13:16
he was never say right desica

Jake 13:20
It's okay. I'm going to wake up the middle of night and Tesla will be over my bed for the copy of last levels. And he demand they played or I die. Like saw but Nintendo edition. Anyway, it says the cut Did you get for mispronouncing my name? forgiveness please, Jessica. I know he's the one who did last levels. He also had mario maker and that's why I know his name so late much lately as I love mirror maker. He's great director and both him yamoto are the heads of linked to the past. And so when it came to this game, I mean, they already knew that the original Zelda Nintendo was well received, but they want to have to do they have to kind of step it up, do something greater for the news. system, especially if this is going to be like a console seller or an early launch title. I mean, this game came out, I think was just after a year, the console launched. 91 is when Zelda came out was released. So they had to kind of do something new. The original Zelda was well known for its open world. The ability to purchase items from stores was pretty novel for the Nintendo, Nintendo. And the various usable items and you collect it through all these maze like dungeons. So they had to take on that expand it. So they looked in, kind of went back and said, Well, what could we do on Nintendo, that we can now with the stats, so it kind of that's when they kind of looked into things that could do like, more story and more plot better music, right? The idea of having two separate worlds the light world, The Dark World world is stuff that was not possible on the original Nintendo. So there's things like that they were looking at doing. One of the cool things I was reading about was they want to use more water right as an environmental effect. How would you say or gameplay affect the original Zelda there? One dungeon I think it was seven where you can get into the dungeon by basically drain the water on pond but it's Nintendo right there's only so much you can do so it just changed the color of the ground texture so from water to grounds and that's how they did it wasn't very good so when they saw that they want to expand on that link to the past and water and look to the past is all over the place right it's it's a theme in one that one or two dungeons at the very least pluses probably overwhelmed like the idea of swimming I don't think link pass a diving but the idea of swimming changing water lowering water all that's a major facet of like the the past so something to kind of want expand on.

Wulff 15:37
As I say I didn't have diving I think it just had ducking to hide under the water from projectiles

Jake 15:42
Was it because I don't just still pretty close awakening has diving moves the same ideas. Yeah, can I confuse the two so much.

Wulff 15:49
So linked to the past just had Ducky talking, but it was it was still a really cool idea of dodging projectile projectiles since you don't have your shield out. You can't just get out of the way so quick The water movement is a little bit

Unknown Speaker 16:03

Wulff 16:05
sluggish, sluggish. That's a good word for plus

Jake 16:07
they also they put the Zora monsters the mermaid monsters in the water and they're constantly popping up shooting fireballs at you and their pain on the ground nevermind we're in the water so it's glad there's some kind of defense against that. So I mean there's other things are looking at adding as well. One of them was the idea of fire the original game had the candle which you could burn Bush's right later I think you light up rooms with as well dark rooms that stuff they brought in to Link to the Past. They want to do bit more with it though originally the plan and developing it so that if you set a bush on fire, it would actually spread out to neighboring bushes and just fill the screen of fire wasn't able to do that on the Super Nintendo. They were even trying to just get it down one of the two that the big trees you could burn the big trees down, but they just couldn't get squeezed in there. In interviews memo to set up at six more months at DEF time, they probably could have figured it out. But it's kind of neat because that's the kind of mechanic that later came into Zelda for song. Which I'm not sure if you guys ever played Zelda for swords before anybody

Wulff 17:05
I love for swords.

Palsh 17:07
Yeah, me and my brother both had it but it was that Christmas time we both got it I think I got a copy of for him he got one for me I think he's have a work we are we we both agreed on getting one for each other and then we tried playing it and then he was gone the next day so I never actually got to experience it properly.

Wulff 17:24
Okay, so I'll say that I got to play the whole thing on gameboy advance it was in the Link to the Past initially for Gameboy Advance and that was a really cool adventure. I think it was I got to play it three player. But then there's also the the actual Four Swords adventure on gamecube which was such a cool idea. I loved it, it was think Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles if it were Zelda instead, but then you could also screw with the Players, which often resulted in a lot of salt, and not very long gameplay sessions, so you didn't really get a whole lot of the game done that way. Unfortunately, you just described Bomber Man I'm super nintendo for me. There was too much. There was too much competitive aspect to a game that was supposed to be so heavily cooperative. And I think that was the game's downfall. But I still love the concept. And I I want to beat that game so bad and I don't know if I'll ever get the chance.

Jake 18:30
There's gotta be a way we can do it online has to be because I played that as well with friends. I don't know if ever finished it though. But it's one of the reasons why I love couch Co Op games these days like you know, overcooked and, and whatnot because just that same feeling for me right for people on screen, messing with each other. You're supposed to be doing a co op game, but it never goes that way.

Unknown Speaker 18:51
But while we're on topic, actually real quick. So the game coke GameCube Four Swords is that different from the 3ds one I thought they were the same thing.

Wulff 19:00
3ds What are you talking about?

Jake 19:03
Man? Sorry?

Wulff 19:05
Oh no, they're very different games the game, the gamecube game is a fully fledged full fleshed out. It's its own adventure. You play it, if you're playing multiplayer, you got to play it with GB, right? That's what I had to do. And it was so cool because every time somebody goes into underground or something, you gotta switch and look at your GPA and play there. And then you go back to the overworld. And then everybody's on the same map again, and it it did a lot of really cool stuff that was way ahead of its time. And I would love to see a Zelda game do that sort of thing. Again, it's just maybe with more accessible control scheme.

Jake 19:47
Yeah, well, I mean, that's the thing, right? Nintendo loves. They just love their hardware, right? They're always trying to find new interesting ways to do the hardware. They'll cost a lot of money. That goes back to like the Wii as well right the Wii and the multiple remotes and Just power glad for the or the or the I saw somebody using the force cut months ago that was another trip just so many control options that are bad but it's a lot of fun though I what I played it was really great. I would love to play it again actually okay so I guess I just want to talk a little bit about Link to the Past itself right i mean this is topic the episode and like it's hard for me cuz I do love everything about this game right? I love how there's actually a story to it. I love how it's you know, the tale of evil wizard who is trying to break a seal to another dimension and bring it back Ganon right stealing sages and maidens I think it's fantastic story. I love the music. I love the graphics. So I love everything with this game. So it's kind of hard for me to like narrow it down. So I'm gonna let relined you guys tell me something about the game that you love. And a couple kind of go with it. GPG actually wants start because we're talking about music earlier.

GP 20:55
Well, yeah, I think the music is fantastic. Um, one of the things because For context, I just did my very first playthrough of this actually was more of a blind run earlier this year and like February of 2019. So I was brand new to the experience. And so many people have hyped up linked to the past I, I really felt bad for not loving it more until the end, I didn't realize how much I enjoyed it until you know, the credits for scrolling. And I'm like, Oh shit, there's no more I'm not ready to be done with it. But immediately the things that stood out to me, you know, the the more crystal clear, you know, expanded musical tones that they carried over from the older games, but also the clarity of the graphics and the smoothness more than anything. I think smoothness of gameplay is not something that you really associate with the original tues elders. And really see it kind of, I don't want to say perfected but you know, taken to a whole new level. It's such a smooth game and just beautiful There were a couple of things I still take issue with on that game. But on the whole what a What a fun experience. And I My only regret was that I waited 35 years to play it.

Jake 22:12
Yeah, it's such a great game. The music is just iconic. For me. It's like there's a handful of composers I think are just great for video games as a whole and Koji Kondo is one of them. He's the one who did like the past, but he's also well known for the merio series as well.

GP 22:27
Well, no, I just had his pissed off because the beeping will not stop I suck at the game so I heard I heard more than I heard music.

Jake 22:36
Yeah, yeah, that beeping sucks. And that's like an all of them too.

Wulff 22:41
Yeah, that's that's a sound that needs to start getting an option. Yeah,

Jake 22:46
well, so we'll get to it in a little bit. But the the idea of Zelda randomizers actually have that option. But anyway, before we go into that, the music Koji Kondo Are you kidding me?

Palsh 22:55
What? What?

Palsh 22:56
Yeah. Oh, why didn't you tell me the lab to play all You know, you have to play Yeah.

Palsh 23:02
Now we got to start over. I that is worth starting over for me. Okay, I'm just saying I'm that with the rent. Actually, no, I can't say anything. Yeah, the randomizer I was playing it as research for this. And actually, no, I shouldn't complain about it because the seed that I got for the randomizer I had, like, all but four hearts. I only ended up beating like one dungeon, I think it was.

Jake 23:27
Yeah, so it actually has an option to make the beep like quarter beep so it's less frequent. I think you can change it even less than that, or you just turned off entirely. But if you're used to playing the games, and you use that boop, boop, boop, and you're gonna die. When you turn it off, and you're playing with three hearts and you're fighting a boss. You don't even notice you're at one half health or whatever, and you die very easily.

Palsh 23:49
If that happens to me, I

GP 23:50
very easily no matter what.

Jake 23:53
Yeah, yeah, early on in Zelda games is always rough, right until you find that you know, the first few hard pieces to kind of even things out the beginnings are actually very tough. Do hard pieces give you more life. That's how bad the game I don't even know if you want to watch a stream or do a three heart run of any of this all the games, I've seen a few people do that actually. And it just I thought I was good at some of these but now these people are masters at it's insane.

Wulff 24:18
I think that would just make me sad.

Palsh 24:21
Just be like, no.

Jake 24:23
So I was

Wulff 24:24
never played Zelda again.

GP 24:27
I don't know. I The reason I people say that they're like, I don't like watching masters of games, because it makes me sad. And I think I'll watch ice skating, but I don't kick myself in the astronaut being a master ice skater. Well, you're doing it wrong. Come on. Well, it's mostly an issue with the costumes. I don't look that good in dresses. But

Palsh 24:46
yeah, this is true. I've seen you in dresses. So

Wulff 24:50
back to the can bring it back around. Jake's question from earlier. I guess I'll take the answer next. My favorite aspect of this was the fact that it had to overworld

Jake 25:01

Wulff 25:01
darker light when I first played it back in, I think, did it come out in 9191? Yeah, I probably paid it in 92 because I don't think I had a Super Nintendo that first year, man that second overworld all of a sudden, just there's a whole nother world in the game. It just blew my mind. I was like, What is this? This is amazing. I was one of those kids who did spend most of his time indoors playing games. I had a TV in my bedroom. I had all sorts of stuff. So when it was that, like, that's not to say I didn't go out and ride my bike all the time and stuff like that, because I did that too. But it was cold or I didn't want to go outside. I could game my friends could come over and hang out with me and we could just play in my room. And this is a game I spent hours on I played the crap out of it. I beat it once I beat it twice. I probably beat it six or seven times in the first two years of owning it. And it was so much fun. This is a game that friends and I would sit Watch each other play and we're doing we're doing the twitch thing well before twitch was a twinkle in someone's eye

Jake 26:08
you're watching me through a window and

GP 26:11
would have been much better to be able to band people back then to get out of my out Larry go change your name and come back later

Wulff 26:20
go home john john. You're pissing

GP 26:21
me off you know john.

Wulff 26:25
I knew a few of them. I knew a few John's I knew a few Jimmy's. We all hung out. It was weird. And that's not a joke.

GP 26:36
Before I forget, I have to ask you werewolf. I have to ask you a question about everything you were just saying that you loved. Because earlier when you were talking all that mess on Zelda to Adventure of Link about the No one told you to look under a table. That was my main issue with Link to the Past. There's so many things that there is no indication that you should look under there or move that Like the bubble walls are the closest thing you get to hince other than that, you know, move this tombstone pick up this tree. Like how are you supposed to know that stuff? So I feel like your thing about that was Zelda two is a good point. But I want you to address how is that okay for Link to the Past? Because that's where all of myself that game came from.

Wulff 27:22
See, I don't know I just kind of knew that certain things could be moved, you know, you can move blocks, you start messing with stuff. I do think Sahasrara law might have had a lot of clues hidden on the walls and dungeons and around yes and whatnot. That might have explained it. I don't know. I it's been so long since I played the game proper. I can't guarantee that Sarah Sally said everything.

Jake 27:49
Sarasota was a sage or in some respect, please.

Wulff 27:55
Oh, I'm sorry sir Sarah Sally.

Palsh 28:00
So, I mean, there was also some stuff listed into the mag manual too, so

Wulff 28:07
that's true. And then if you really got stuck there was that little hint guide that came with the game too. I still Oh yeah.

Palsh 28:15
A little was like fold out the black and white folded.

Wulff 28:18
Yeah, little two by three fold out pamphlet.

GP 28:21
Yeah. Okay, well, that's fair. I guess. If you grew up with the game, and you had a tablet or something like that telling you what to do. That makes more sense. Thank you.

Wulff 28:31
That little booklet though. It was sealed when you got it and it made sure to let you know, you know, only open if you get really stuck.

Palsh 28:38
Yeah. And you opened it like the first or second dungeon because you didn't know what was going on. You know, you never forget it. But

GP 28:47
let's just like the table. Yeah. Now, you know, look under the table, right?

Jake 28:51
Yeah. That's like a Zelda Zelda is all about rewarding exploration. Right. And the idea bottle walls almost didn't make it into the game. So than the original Zelda, you could, you know, bomb walls but they weren't distinguished, I think then we could tell them the original was with the sound of the note that it made when you hit your sword against the wall. I think that's the thing. And they have that and Link to the Past. But Miyamoto experimented with, you know, having the ability to bomb walls because he found that was very rewarding to players if they actually took the time to explore dungeon and four secrets. But then he realized what the original, you know, the problem is, is too easy to miss, you know, some of the rooms that could be there. So if you didn't know to look for the rooms, you'd be kind of missing out on some of the content. So that's why he kind of stuck with the idea bominable cracked walls, so it makes a little more visible to what you're doing. But there's some stuff that like both mentioned, sometimes you just know you need to do something in a room. Like when you're playing a Zelda game and there's like five blocks standing on their own. You just know you're going to push one of them. It's just one of those things that kind of ingrained on you early on with the gameplay.

Wulff 29:50
Yeah, or if there's a key door in a room and there's just a bunch of enemies and nothing to do probably kill all the enemies in the Drop a key something like that

Jake 30:02
but like it's definitely a game it doesn't actually hold your hands or when your hands that's the thing anyway but you definitely a game where you have to explore I guess to kind of get the most out of it there's items you can miss I think in that game as well. You don't necessarily need all the items to finish the game which I think is amazing. Paul shovel you Yeah, well, yeah, there's the invisible cape is one of the item Oh, yeah,

Wulff 30:24
there's the cane the cane.

Jake 30:27
Okay, at least a few.

Palsh 30:28
Yeah, I found the magic cape. By mistake. I remember that. And I was really proud of myself because neither of my brothers did it. So you know when there's a 10 year gap between you and your older brothers, and you do something they did? It's bragging time

Wulff 30:42
I got a little that from my little brother from time to time was

Palsh 30:47
asking them do that still. No, I remember loving the game because Zelda to was probably one of my favorite games because it was one of the few I had like I remember When Super Nintendo came out we had probably half a dozen actual games we rented most of the games. So if I got a game is usually for birthday or Christmas gift and that was it and I mean, Christmas gift we're talking Sears wish book you know there's a lot of stuff besides video games you had to get your hands on so so there's a lot of rentals I got and so when I actually owned Zelda two on NAS I think I got it at a yard sale with a bunch of others like Simon's quest, pro wrestling and something else and it was it was instantly because I owned it is my favorite. And then I played it extra and I was like this is better than I remembered. You know there's only like two years that's probably like 11 years old or something. But because of that I was like instantly a fan of linked to the past and when I played it, this is good. This is good. This gets better. We're getting stuck and getting last and ripping open that cheat sheet. You know, that cheat sheet. Never basically fold it up again because it was always left out. There's no way to You stopped it. You needed it every time. And you wished it was like pages and pages longer. But it was just really fun because it felt like a Zelda game for some reason, even though the only one I actually had experience with was Zelda two never played the first one at this point, and then this one came out I played I was like, okay, cool, played links awakening and not long after it came out, just like, this is great. And I remember buying it for $25 because it was like, not a greatest hits version. It wasn't quite they didn't have the greatest hits kind of thing or the game of the year, whatever. They called it back then. But it was probably around. I'd say 9796 something like that. And I found a copy for could have been earlier than that actually. But I remember finding copy of Walmart for $25 and just begging my dad Can I can I can. I managed to get it and so then I fell in love with it again. So it was just held a fun place. My heart I don't care for it as much now, but back then it it just blew me away because it was just such a good game.

Jake 33:08
Yeah for me i think it's it's the influence its had on the rest of series is what I think draws me to liking it still even today like to go back to the music for a minute. Oh good.

Palsh 33:18
Oh no, I was going to agree. I mean that's that's I think what makes me feel so good about is how much of an influence it is on games in the future because there's not a lot of game like it's not in my top 10 anymore, which is saying something because this is still a damn good game. The influence of head on future gaming I think it's, it's crazy, like direct or indirect. It's there,

Jake 33:42
like the idea of the music even alone. I mean some of the themes that are famous throughout the franchise, things like Zelda lullaby or Gandalf theme, or Hyrule Castle, you hear bits and pieces of those themes in every Zelda game up to the Breath of the Wild even. So like that Music from this game is pretty much through through the entire series. And I mean the idea of the spin slash and then you know, various items and stuff. There's there's a boomerang, there's a hookshot and various sequels to the franchise. They're all kind of used in slightly different ways, especially in the 3d Zelda. But it all kind of comes back to like, the past has been the origin of a lot of that stuff. I mean, the original intent of Zelda. I like it's great. But I think it really just kind of cement the idea of an open world exploration and dungeons. But as links to the past that broke out into the idea of all these very unique items and Collectibles that really excited and exploring things. Right when we talk about Metro veiny is, I think, the past kind of belongs as part of the what we call the makeup or history of that kind of genre is part of like the past as well. It's very much like Metroid, right?

Palsh 34:50
Yeah, it's it's like more of a kind of top down version of it as opposed to just like straight up platform, right? But it has the same elements to it, which I think That's probably what appeals to me still is because it has that that certain path you have to take and there's shortcuts you can do their stuff. You can go for extras, but you know, there's a there's a set path and there's a reason behind it.

Jake 35:13
Well, and so like, I mean, it's not your top 10 for me, it's probably my top three. If you asked me what my top three favorite games are, it changes every month to be fair, but linked to the past like the past is always on top three. I really love that game quite a bit specially for the Super Nintendo. Again, I'm played as many of this NES games other people have but this one is great. I love this but I think mario world it's like an eight for me Link to the Past is like a two or three if not higher, it's

Palsh 35:42
great. And considering how much you like the Mario games that's that's

Jake 35:45
my boy loves me my merio

GP 35:50
think I'm culturally and in the history of gaming. The impact of Link to the Past is pretty undeniable. To the point that even if you don't like the game, You have to be able to say well yeah this is this is culturally significant in the gamer universe, right? So

Wulff 36:09
you know what that's that's actually I think my brother's position on the franchise is most Zelda games he's not into. But he he like understands why people are into him but they're not for him. Granted right now he's going through the new links awakening and loving it so I don't know maybe that'll rekindle something in him. But yeah, he's he's not been a Zelda fan for most of his

Jake 36:30
life. If he loves links awakening, then he'll he should like Link to the Past. I mean, I think links awakening is probably a better game is that remake is pretty good too. But links to the passes permission, same thing. But it's also for me, it's a it's a game I think is very timeless. We've mentioned before that's NES games or 16 bit era era for me will always look great, right? As nice as 3d graphics are, I can still sit down and play an old school 60 big game and love it. Sometimes Nintendo has that but For me, it's always been 16 bit. And Zelda game I still play today I play it quite often. But once you've kind of found all the secrets and you've, you know, you've mastered the route through the dungeons linked to the past, you know, it's not so fun to play anymore, at least in its current state. So, let's go back a couple years ago. I don't know if you guys fell for it. There's this huge fad of roguelike games. You know, raise your hand if you played it. roguelike right. Rogue Legacy was Oh, absolutely. Everybody's playing the

Wulff 37:30
legacy Binding of Isaac it The list goes on

Jake 37:33
bunny Isaac is very clearly influenced by Zelda, right? It's like smash TV by Zelda.

Palsh 37:37
Oh, yeah.

Jake 37:38
So read the idea of procedural games. It's really popular. And then the idea of ROM hacking or modding of old games has been around for a decade or more, right. And there's a lot of people who do amazing stuff with ROMs there's a few notable ROM hacks for like the past even there's one called parallel worlds. It might as well be the unofficial sequel to Link to the Past. It's It's a fantastic run. Mac, it's practically a brand new game. It's amazing. But what's really got me about a year and a half ago now is a group of folks had put together basically a randomizer. What they've done is they found a way to take the ROMs code and scramble various things to randomize it. I guess that's the name of why they call it randomizers. But they would take all the items in the game, and they would spread them around, right? So you wouldn't necessarily get a sword from your uncle and the first part of the, you know, castle dungeon, maybe you'll get a boomerang. Maybe you'll get you know, fuckton get five rupees, right, it was completely random. But the way that was ingenious about it is they would scramble the items. But they would put in logic to prevent you from getting screwed when you go into the dungeons because links to the past requires certain items in certain parts of the game. So they kind of adjusted the game's code and logic to account for that. So Link to the Past, and randomizers it's been a huge thing for me, last year and a half. It's one of my favorite things to do when I have free time is to play round of Zelda randomizer it's at the point now where I can use Beat one in under four hours, which I'm pretty proud of. Because it can be linked to the past fidella in usually two and a half if I'm feeling good. So the randomizer to me just brings this fresh of air to a game that I used to love as a kid. And now I love it even more now because I also love roguelikes I think they're great. The idea of procedural content in games has always been fascinating to me. Like I'm a big fan of Minecraft, but my issue with Minecraft was not of Zelda like influences in it right? You had sorts in Minecraft but you didn't have dungeons Really? I mean, you had kind of dungeons. You didn't really have fun combat but you had this great exploration element. I always wish that it had Zelda like elements. Zelda randomizer manaphy Minecraft but it has anything I want. So the rammers is great. So the recent additions actually they recently changed a bit so now you have boss shuffling so the bosses even change sometimes they can duplicate sums they won't I mean they added in power changes to the dungeons can look different now that have various characters appear to be as as a cosmetic thing. Probably important to polish they got rid of the heart beating Right. There's a lot of options built on the randomizer website that's just fantastic to check out. I asked you guys for the podcast and maybe just do a round or two of the round of the randomizer to see how it is. Pulse you want to start because I know you started a randomizer probably before I did actually,

Palsh 40:14
I was probably spending just as much time trying to get the ROM hacked work because I'm tech inept. But once I got it going, I was like, okay, you know, I'm gonna give this a shot. I've seen a lot of friends playing it before and I was like, Okay, cool. The games. Kind of getting old for me. I'm just kind of sick of it. I called it the Mega Man to center my first because it's just like, everybody was playing a randomizer I never sounded like the first time I played the game on stream. People were like, Oh, it's nice to see someone actually playing the vanilla version. I was like, cool. Okay, right now, welcome. But the only time I've ever seen people playing randomizers up until now was watching people race each other or, you know, do PBS and stuff like those speed runners basically and ones that were that knew the game inside and Which is amazing, but it's just not for me. So I just I guess because of that I kind of had this automatic bias towards and I'm like, okay, I don't don't like it. You know, it's not for me. But when I tried it, I mean, I like the original game. It's nothing wrong with it as it's a great game, but just trying and the excitement of actually trying to think your way through it because oh, I don't have a sword. I didn't have a sword for the first like, 4550 minutes. And I was like, I'm in trouble. And everybody in chat was watching me play it and they were like, Oh my God. Oh, you got a hammer. Thank God, you know, like so there was this kind of tension that that wasn't there since I first played the game. And that was kind of cool, because it was like playing the game. You had similar feelings of playing the game for the first time, but still being familiar enough with it that it? You know, it hit the nostalgia button for you. So I gotta say I was very, very impressed with how much fun it actually was when I finally dread

Jake 41:58
it. Yeah, like the highs and lows. are fantastic man playing that like you have 200 rupees you know you need to go to Kings or to get the flippers but in a randomizer you don't know what you're going to get. And I think every time I've played one I almost never get something useful from Zora it's almost always something stupid like arrows five rupees a cane something I don't want and it always curses name like every single time.

Palsh 42:21
Yeah, I looked it up because I get the flippers It was like one of the first three things I've gotten. And then so I was running around trying to kill things with pots. Yeah, because pots pots and bushes because I couldn't actually swing at them with anything and then I ran out of bombs. So I had bombs and something else I'm still in the same game. I'm still trying to get the damn lantern so I'm kind of stuck. So I think right now I have to just find my way in the dark and I'm kind of scared to.

Jake 42:47
I think wolf when I watched you play a little bit. I think you were stuck with the lamp as well trying to find one.

Wulff 42:51
Okay, so I played two randomizers this week. The first one was Just the Link to the Past randomizer and right up front it was given me awesome item after awesome item like I had the Master Sword before I even made it into a dungeon. It was that crazy. I had the hammer I had, I had all sorts of stuff. What I what the game just would not give me was that lantern. So it kept it keeps cutting me off from various paths within dungeons. So I can only do so much because I can't do anything without the lantern. I have no book I have no lantern. I'm hosed as far as getting into done

Palsh 43:44
it's just thinking of which he's not the Canadian one in here but

Wulff 43:47
but it's a pretty much off the table for me with that stuff. So today I decided to try for the first time the Super Metroid is linked to the past randomizer because both games I'm very familiar with It's been a long time for both of them, but I, I've played the crap out of them numerous times. Explain how they actually what they actually do. Like the randomizer for that. Yeah, so it puts items from both games in either game. And there are points within both the Zelda world and the Metroid world, where passing through a doorway will take you from one game to the other. You know, samas can find upgrades for Sammis or she can find upgrades for link or items for link or whatever. Same with link out in Hyrule, you can find items for Sammis and so it's, it can be frustrating, especially since with my experience, let's let's This one was less kind to me. Let's Let's start with that. I was super excited right off the bat. You know, it starts you in Metroid. It starts to in Super Metroid. So I jump into the game. Run around on Zabbix for about, I don't know, five minutes you can do anything. And then you just z

Palsh 45:10
was it z? No, I No, no no I just call it jeebs cuz was Elvis doesn't sound right to me still

Wulff 45:15
number one told us I want to say it was Eric. Someone told us how to pronounce it properly because of other pronounced it.

Palsh 45:22
Yeah. And I forget what it is.

Wulff 45:25
Yeah it was I went to go through a door and all of a sudden boom I walk out of a house in High Rollers link and I'm like, Okay, cool. So I'll start exploring all sorts of stuff here. I know this world I know there's a ton of treasure chests I can get even with nothing because you have no sword. You have no nothing when you start the game. I start running around. It probably took me about shut up Google. It took me about it probably took me about two hours. To even find the Morph Ball after getting to link so I was reaching for straws trying to look everywhere I could and I think I probably found the last chest I could obtain with the items I had that was finally they Morph Ball and then I could run over into play as Sam us again. Got to do a whole bunch of stuff there. ended up getting my way to norfair struggling my way to norfair let's be honest, because I didn't have a whole lot of help with her. I got no health upgrades for samas finally get to norfair went through a door boom I'm back in high role on Death Mountain. I was like yes, okay, I can do more stuff. And again, I'm still linked running around without a sword. I'm killing things with the hookshot or bombs. That's all I've got to kill things. And most things don't die from the hookshot they just get stuck so I it was a mess. After three and a half hours of gameplay, I finally found a sword for link

Palsh 47:00
Three Okay, I don't feel bad about my 15 minutes now.

Wulff 47:04
No, it was and then I had to call it for the day. But that was I will be going back to that one. Because now it's now it's like I have to it's a challenge that has been accepted.

Jake 47:19
yet. The first time I did that I've only been at like twice and it usually takes me around 1516 hours. It's, but I've also I love Super Metroid, but I don't know where all the hidden stuff is. Whereas Zelda I know very well. But the few things I'm probably missing in Zelda and Super Nintendo or Super Metroid is probably what screws me through those randomizers but it's really fun.

Wulff 47:40
But that randomizer playing it is really what has settled it in my mind that Yeah, Metroid and Zelda are a lot more alike than I think people realize.

Jake 47:51
So same with the metro videos as a genre, like the two games are very, very similar in that regard. It's great.

Palsh 47:58
Yeah, I never realized until Till recently actually have similar those games actually are so, but first I'm like What the hell are you getting on with you know, combining those two games that couldn't be more different now I'm like, okay, I dig it. I'm scared to play it. But I did.

Jake 48:15
I do love wolf how you got screwed but the two hardest to deal breaker game items in those games is the Morph Ball and the lamp. If you don't have those, those games become very difficult to get through.

Wulff 48:26
Speaking of which, I still have no lamp in that Super Metroid Zelda randomizer.

Jake 48:32
So they do let you do a few. I don't have a speed round tricks. There's a few glitches you can do to get through certain parts or even just tricks like for like the past. There are people who memorized the layers of the dark rooms so you can get through them. I'm not one of them. The game's coded so you don't need to do that. There's left somewhere. But I've seen people just skip it by going to the dark rooms. And then for Super Metroid. Lava diving is probably the big one, right? Because there's you The fire the various various suit virus suit where we say that the presses against that a lot of damage. Yeah, so that's you do need it in Super Metroid. But there's a couple of rooms where if you have enough health, you can still dip in the lava proceed and get what you want and come back out. And that can actually give you a bit of a shortcut and certain certain circumstances. Again the code it's you don't need to do that. But it's helpful if you kind of do those contracts.

Wulff 49:24
However, I feel like this can be a very dangerous slippery slope for me I think I'm going to start probably spending more time playing these randomizers and now I'm interested

Jake 49:35
Well, I made the mistake See how

Wulff 49:36
I feel after I beat one but right now I'm I'm totally enticed by the the idea

Jake 49:45
of doing a randomizer race and the two other guys I was racing against kicked my ass because they were doing the dark room dark rooms with lamp because they knew the layout because they're that good. And it was hilarious. But he also watched a few Zelda races randomly racers What do you think?

GP 50:01
Well, I, I watched them wanting to kind of do the homework as we say, or do the research before playing a randomizer because I know everybody else has played him this week to do the research. But again, having only played each game Link to the Past and Super Metroid once and earlier this year, I quickly realized I'm not going to be playing those randomizers because I don't really know either of the games well enough to be able to formulate strategy. So the first video that I watch, and that was the dual game randomizer. At first, I'm like, this is going to suck because the guys who were racing actually as a race, first thing they found were or God or Silver Arrows, so not being familiar with the game, or randomizer something. Oh, this is just a new way to cheese, these games, but it was almost like the commentator was directly talking to me and my psyche, because it goes that's a great item, but it's not worth shit if you don't have the bow and arrow and you can't do anything the sword or the morphable and I'm like oh my god I've completely underestimated what this is. And so I was between minutes five and six so I think in time I may try to go and learn the vanilla versions so that I could do a randomizer but I'm I feel like I'm still so far off because the guys playing you know as they're getting items in their mind you can just tell Okay, what can I go do now what can I cannot you know, what can't I go do now and the commentators as well are saying I think they're gonna go to lower norfair and I'm like, I don't even know which game that's from know your shit. I don't think I'm sitting here thinking is there a Mario randomizer is there you know is there a randomizer I can try first. So I'm there is dipping my toes into the shallow end of the randomizer pool I can tell you the one thing I wish they had already fast forward button Don't Don't get me started Don't get me started horrible joke and I don't mean that but like I said I completely underestimated how much I thought I would like it. It did give me an appreciation for how little I know about these games. But that did not make the experience of watching the races any less fun.

Jake 52:29
Yeah, a good color commentary makes all the difference for watching a speed runner race especially with the randomizers because if they know the ins and outs and explain things It's like watching a basketball game or for me a football game. I know jack about football. But if they commentator can explain what's going on in a click away it's it's all the difference.

GP 52:46
Oh yeah, if the if the video was on mute, I wouldn't have lasted 20 minutes but being pulled in and and watching how the two different guys because they're playing the same randomizer like all the locations are the same thing for each racer. But the way in which they strategize in their head ensures that they just route it differently even though they have, you know, I don't know where steps that but it was incredibly enthralling and entertaining. And like I said, I wish I'd had more experience with both those games. So I, you know, I would be able to do them,

Wulff 53:22
but we'll get there in time. I want to say it was summer of 2018 that I, when I was doing laundry, cleaning the house, whatever I would put on those selda races because they had a huge tournament that lasted a couple weeks. Oh, man, those were so cool to watch to just check in on them while I was doing stuff around the house, folding laundry, whatever. And, you know, I'm folding three different people's laundry while sorting them and all that so it's given me something to do while I'm just folding clothes, hanging them up, whatever. It is so cool to just see how they play so differently. I watched so many races, it's ridiculous. And these people were like, you'd hear the commentator like, well, this guy's made the choice to go here. And this guy's made the choice to go there. And that's a big gamble. But if it pays off, it'll be huge. And you know, you see him take that chance and all of a sudden, boom, he's way ahead of the first guy because he took that gamble. It's ridiculous just to see these strategies play out.

Jake 54:19
Yeah, it's almost like a competitive Sudoku. Right? It's or competitive crossword it's like a logic puzzle that people are figuring out as quickly as possible. But far more exciting, right?

Palsh 54:30
Yeah to terrible math to even do a regular Sudoku thing.

Jake 54:35
But you know, I was bad at randomizers and and being into it took me forever to beat my first plane Zelda one and the Zelda Metroid crossover one, I still struggle with half the time. But up you're saying that you didn't want to try the randomizers because, you know, you've only played each game once you don't know where everything is. On the one hand, though, that can be fun as well because that comes back to the thing that makes the series great which is exploration right. Playing the Zelda Metroid one especially, it's a whole double world out there of just exploring, right? Is he finished it or not, maybe. But it's fun just playing it, and trying to explore the various nooks and crannies for the items and see how they work together. I think it's great, even if you're not familiar with the base games, but

Wulff 55:16
there's also the different tiers, you can set the randomizer to where it's not throwing all the rupees around and everything. If it just swaps the items, you know, or something like that. You can you can make it less

GP 55:28
crazy. See, that's the thing I don't want to I don't want to go training wheels and I know that's 100% 100% ego warpless

Unknown Speaker 55:37
Right. Yeah.

GP 55:39
But I do like that's the thing is by the time I attempted I want to be knowledgeable and I get what you're saying subject and maybe maybe that's enough to change my mind and just dive in. Instead of like I said, Wade in the shallow waters, but pretty pretty much my only my only confidence with that that set of two games is that I could properly Identify, which I didn't goes in which world. And beyond that I really, it just seems like such a massive undertaking.

Jake 56:08
It's still, I still want my most favorite things in recent years. I've always loved retro games even, even now in the current next gen systems. I still like going back to the 16 bit era, but to see people so passionately about randomizers and like ROM hacking and just bring a new life to these games, I think is just fantastic. Well,

GP 56:24
and you kind of said something like that earlier, which is what gives me the field goods. And lets me know that retro will always be around and that is people are coming up with new ways to play the old games. And so long as we have things like that, I mean, retro. There's no reason for it to die out.

Unknown Speaker 56:44
That's a good final thought. Yes. All right. Well, I think we're hitting our time

GP 56:49
and like I said, I just, I picked and picked on air. T mo

Palsh 56:56
again. Do you wash your hands this time? Nope.

Unknown Speaker 57:01
I see no reason it's good time to end

Wulff 57:03
with a sentiment

GP 57:05
in fatik Nope. Why would I start now? I mean come on.

Jake 57:09
Alright folks. Well JP we'll start with you. Where can folks find you?

GP 57:13
Yeah, I'm right here other than presby to cancel I had to go from the peak of my my prowess with my thoughts to the lowest of the trough. So there we go. No other than press me to cancel you can find me on the retro therapy which is on Twitch Twitter. We got YouTube we got Instagram all the classics.

Palsh 57:36
Yeah, the retro therapy. And Paul shovel you Where can folks find you? On GP so my answer because I was seriously but saying you can find me right here. Now. Now I have nothing witty to say. So you can find me here and sometimes on Twitch.

GP 57:52
You can you can answer first it'll be fine.

Palsh 57:55
Now that's too much trouble now.

Jake 57:57
filming this episode need a lot editing. Sorry. Okay,

GP 58:01
mostly just because the discord I think discords

Jake 58:05
Yes, we'll just we'll just blame it all on Discord. We're will help people find you.

Wulff 58:12
I can be found again here. And on Twitter and Twitch at werewolf w ar e w ULFF

Palsh 58:22
sounds like a radio station who carry

Wulff 58:28
cartridge with a wolf like as a wolf

Jake 58:33
and we're commanded to live here on Radio presby to cancel you listening to us right here and my name is sick Jake you can find me on Twitter or sometimes on Twitch like polish. And you've been listening to presby to cancel. Special thanks for music go to Arthur the ancient found on Soundcloud or the last nation on YouTube. For more episodes, please visit our website presby as well Feel free to like or subscribe at Apple, iTunes, Google podcasts or anywhere else you'd like to listen to your favorite shows. As always, thank you. This has been an ad again.

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